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Alpha plugin: nwnx_spells
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acaos



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:40    Post subject: Alpha plugin: nwnx_spells Reply with quote

I've just committed an extremely alpha plugin to the repository. It has no real configurability yet (quite a bit of HG-specific stuff hard-coded) and is still under heavy development.

What it does, however, is allows you to add additional spellcasting classes to NWN.


  • You need to set the 'Spellcaster' value for the class to '1' in the classes.2da file. Clients need this file.
  • You need to add a SpellGainTable for the class to the classes.2da file. This file needs to be on the server.
  • You can't add spontaneous caster classes yet.
  • You can't add divine-type classes where characters have access to their entire spell list automatically. You need to add any spells the character might know to their spellbook.
  • All new spell classes are considered divine right now (for purposes of spell failure and deafness).
  • All new-class spells are considered to be cast at their 'innate level' right now.
  • Resting to recover spells works normally.
  • The player spellcasting radial works normally, as does quickslotting by right-clicking on an empty quickslot.
  • The new classes will not show up in the DM spellcasting radial.
  • Clients can't edit their spellbook using the client interface. You'll need a conversation-based interface on the server using the nwnx_funcs KnownSpell/MemorizedSpell functions.


Acaos
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SSJeol



Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:54    Post subject: Re: Alpha plugin: nwnx_spells Reply with quote

Very Happy Wow! Very Happy

It's amazing what can be done with nwnx and plugins. I can't wait to start experimenting with this. I'm really new to this, so I hope I do not sound too ignorant in my questions.

acaos wrote:
[*] You can't add divine-type classes where characters have access to their entire spell list automatically. You need to add any spells the character might know to their spellbook.


That's not a bad thing IMO, Adding them in a levelup script allows for better customization, or am I missing something?

acaos wrote:
]
[*] Clients can't edit their spellbook using the client interface. You'll need a conversation-based interface on the server using the nwnx_funcs KnownSpell/MemorizedSpell functions.


Is this a client side limitation making it hard or near impossible to have? Or is it to be done anytime in the future?

- J

(Oh, I'm picturing talking spellbooks becoming sentient, and flying away from their wizards, with a resulting increase of Ancient Tomes because of this. ^_^)
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acaos



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:48    Post subject: Re: Alpha plugin: nwnx_spells Reply with quote

SSJeol wrote:
acaos wrote:
[*] You can't add divine-type classes where characters have access to their entire spell list automatically. You need to add any spells the character might know to their spellbook.

That's not a bad thing IMO, Adding them in a levelup script allows for better customization, or am I missing something?

You're not missing anything. Just if you did want to make a cleric-type class, you'd need to fill their spellbook with every spell they might know.

SSJeol wrote:
acaos wrote:
[*] Clients can't edit their spellbook using the client interface. You'll need a conversation-based interface on the server using the nwnx_funcs KnownSpell/MemorizedSpell functions.

Is this a client side limitation making it hard or near impossible to have? Or is it to be done anytime in the future?


This is a client-side limitation and would require a client edit. I might try to do that at some point in the future; we already have a slightly customized client on Higher Ground which adds additional effect icons.

Acaos
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futts



Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't a client edit be illegal, though?
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Fireboar



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 16:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

futts wrote:
Wouldn't a client edit be illegal, though?


Nope, this is Bioware. They actively encourage anything that makes the game more enjoyable for all involved, that's why they released their GFF and ERF specifications, among others, and why there is a For Developers section on nwn.bioware.com.
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futts



Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 23:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be a good idea to get official word on this. If no one does it here I'll pursue it myself. I'm concerned on the legal ramifications, because of other factors like the reasons of them not releasing the source code, et cetera.
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addicted2rpg



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've often thought of the legality of this kind of technology. I've copyrighted software before and the Library of Congress has me submit it under the "written works" category that books and things would use. As far as literature goes, you can use a copyrighted work (and exceprts from it) if you are making commentary on or about that work as long as it is not a reproduction.

I liken the NWNX extenders and their various plugins to the software equivalent of commentary on another work; it is not being modified and republished as a new work.

For a more concrete thought process, a guy who tints windows on automobiles shouldn't be in legal trouble with Toyota, Ford, GM, etc.. for modifying their automobile at the wish of a customer.

While I feel both of these are exactly 100% analogously the same, the United States is full of graft and corruption, so as to what the law REALLY says in the U.S. about the extent and use of this kind of thing (and on other products), I don't know. I know laws differ very much so in other countries, and I know even less about what they allow.

edit: Sorry not to detract from the main post. I think this project sounds very fascinating. Client side changes of course can provide a certain degree frustration as far as PW's go (the server admin is somewhat responsible in getting anyone who wants to try his server technically compliant, which is a bit of a turnoff). I don't know how many SP mods use NWNX, but I imagine not many. Despite this limitation, however, I think this project should be explored further in the event something like a clientside extender is ever released to replace this. It probably would be less trouble than what people go through already with downloading haks, tlks, and everything else. Although I have played and ran a server in the past using FreeBSD w/ Linux emulation, I plan to constrain the bulk of my development curiosity to Windows, so I'll have to cheer from the sidelines on this one Smile
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Fireboar



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Bioware:

Quote:
As just about any modification to the game at this level can be used for both good and evil, avoid discussing anything in a context that is intended to interfere with _another_ player's fun, encourages or enables piracy or otherwise contradicts the Neverwinter Nights EULA, which can be found on Install Disk 1 in eula.txt, or this community's Terms of Use.

For example, discussing how Brandon's camera hack works is okay, discussing how the NWNX2 system can be used to support your persistent world is also okay, but discussing how that system can be used to give one player an advantage over another is not.

As always, these guidelines are subject to BioWare's interpretation but use your common sense and it should be okay.


However, in the EULA:

Quote:
You may not decompile, modify, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise reproduce the Software.

...

Your rights to create Variations are subject to the following restrictions: ... (2) your Variations must not contain modifications to any executable file;


So who knows? I'm leaning towards the first point, but it would be a good idea to get confirmation from Bioware.
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futts



Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 18:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lean towards the second for this line alone:

Quote:
otherwise contradicts the Neverwinter Nights EULA


And the EULA is pretty clear, so modifying the executable would be illegal. It is best to get official word, however, and point out the statements mentioned by you Fireboar so people aren't confused/the matter is cleared up.

I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade or derail the thread, my apologies if it seems as such but I respect Bioware and don't want to violate their policies... (nor do I want legal trouble for anyone for that matter!)
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Fireboar



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 323

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 18:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite understandable, the real uncertainty is exactly what the EULA refers to. On a case-by-case basis Bioware CAN overrule any part of the EULA though, and I think this may well be one of those instances. It does seem pretty clear that, without permission at least, such a thing is technically illegal (even if Bioware wouldn't press charges).
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virusman



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1014
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neverwinter Nights is a product of both Atari and Bioware, so I don't think we can get an official permission to publish modified executables.
It's illegal by the EULA, but it's fine by unofficial Bioware policies (as long as the modifications add features, not exploits).
Anyway, if there will be a client-side NWNX, it will work the same way as server-side NWNX - without any modifications to the NWN executables.
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Lokey



Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't live in a Corporate Dystopia yet, an EULA is garbage in most countries by default. Keep us updated on how well Bio/Atari/etc legal have done stomping the dm-impersonators/wall hacks/etc Wink
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futts



Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 13:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disrespecting the EULA is disrespecting Bioware, something that the NWN Community is far above. We also have players that could be ignorant to what they are actually downloading, and that in itself is rather frightening.
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virusman



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1014
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 15:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've made an early version of client-side NWNX. It can be loaded either automatically with a modified nwmain.exe (with the only difference being the additional entry in the import table) or with an external loader (with no modifications to the NWN executable).
Btw, there was a camera hack in early NWN days. It was very popular, it's got a Hall of Fame entry on Vault, and was recognized by Bioware, despite the fact that it was modifying the game executable.
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Zebranky



Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 16:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

virusman wrote:
Btw, there was a camera hack in early NWN days. It was very popular, it's got a Hall of Fame entry on Vault, and was recognized by Bioware, despite the fact that it was modifying the game executable.

It's not limited to older versions, either. Smile
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