Should I take the time?

[Sagerious]

Hello all

I've been poking around here, and I'm interested in maybe learning this stuff in order to enhance the experience of the players of my PW. Basically, I just want to know if what NwNx has to offer would be worth my time in learning how to use it...

A bit about what I know already...

I've been working on the world for about a year now, and I'm a moderate to good scripter with NWScript, and I have limited experience with databases. I've been operating a phpBB forum for a while, and I've had to trouble shoot it from time to time, so I'm mildly familiar with phpMyAdmin. I know basic DB terms and such, and have created a few simple databases in Access, but I know I have a lot to learn. I've messed around a little with Microsoft Visual programs in Visual Basic, C#, and C++, and even tried to make a GUI of my own. I managed to create the basic form itself, but never figured out how to get it to do stuff. Also, though I doubt this has any relevance, I've managed to create a few decent-looking websites using HTML, DHTML, xhtml, and JavaScript. I'm self-taught on all of this, having learned most of it within the past year and a half or so, so I'm sure I am a bit sloppy in the implementation department, but I'm still learning

Soooo...considering this, how much work do you think I would have to put in to learn how to use NwNx adequately? And, do you think the benefits of NwNx would be worth the effort? What are the benefits of using NwNx?

Thanks for your time

[FunkySwerve]

Definitely. You can do a variety of things with NWNX that you just can't otherwise. I was first drawn to it because I wanted permanent stat increases for subraces to get around the +12 bonus cap. The nwnx_letoscript plugin allows you to edit characters in this fashion, altering almost any aspect of the character you want, while the server is running. I then used the same plugin to create a legendary level system to simulate leveling from character levels 41-60.

I have made use of the database flexibility so lacking in the standard bioware db to optimize database reads, using only one read instead of 10 or even 50 in some places. The reads themselves are also much faster, allowing for uses that simply would not be realistic (or even possible) with the NW db. I have a login tracking system that tracks players on two different servers at once, is able to tell what server the mod is on despite the mods on both servers being identical, can list all the players on a given server from the other server, loads all persistent variables (ala campaign variables) in a sinlge go onclient enter and converts them to locals, a banking system that stores objects and retrieves them in a single superfast db read, and a player market complex enough that it simply wouldn't be doable with the bioware db, making use of MySQL's easy expiration setup to delete items left unattended for 7 days. I plan to extend my banking system soon to deal with numbers outside the int range of nwn (a bit over 2 billion) by doing the math in the sql database.

Most recently, I began tinkering with dumbo's new chat plugin, nwnx_chat, to extend the game's capabilities even further. Similar to its predecessor, Talus Speech, nwnx_chat tracks all chat ingame, including server messages, and is able to intercept it, allowing muting of channels, or individual players on the fly. You can log messages, redirect them, mute them, or hook scripts off them. Typing *df, for instance, does a death forward animation in the scriptset I set up. Dms logged in as players can do just about anything the dm client can do and more, using tells to pick targets. They can port around, create vfx, ban, mute, kill, invuln, and so on. There are 54 languages that players can choose to speak - those weho dont speak them see only gibberish, while speakers get the translated version. There's a built-in spamblocker to stop others from advertising on your server. There are player -created chat channels called metachannels, a renaming function, dicerolling functions, skill check functions, listing commands, and a bunch more, all via simple typed commands.

And that's just what I've done with it - I was pretty much in your shoes not too long ago. If you do decide to look into NWNX, I'd highly recommend setting up MySQL - it's a pain to setup if you are unfamiliar with databases as I was when I did it (I'd toyed with access a few times, thats it), but it is sooooo worth it. Learning the ins and outs of MySQL commands is a bit tricky for the uninitiated, but there are tutorials aplenty and a helpful community to assist. In any case, here are the links to the systems I mentioned aboved that I've made publicly available, in case you want more info on them. I would advise against using DAR, because it has a somewhat complicated timing issue that I need to add to the documentation, and is also needlessly complex - use Shayan's if you want a well-documented and user-friendly subrace system. I was the first to convert a subrace system to the new letoscript language, and had little idea what I was doing at the time. HGLL and SIMTools, however, are rock-solid. They both come with all the nwnx files you need to get going along with detailed install directions, but I would suggest looking through the documentation here to get a fuller grasp of nwnx before relying on my readmes, if you plan to make use of the database functionality.
DARII Subraces
Higher Ground Legendary Levels
SIMTools Speech Integration and Management Tools

Hope this gives you some idea of what nwnx can do.
Funky

[Sagerious]

Wow, I couldn't have dreamed of a better response. Thank you.

I have set up SQL on my home machine once before, along with Apache Server, and PHP, though I never managed to do anything with them. It was a pain to get going, so I am hoping that I can find a dedicated server that will set it up for me lol.

But anyway, I have one more set of questions...

Of the plug-ins that you mentioned, how much of that will be compatible with NWN2? I am familiar with Leto, though I've obvioulsy never used it with NwNx. Do you think it will function with NWN2? Or, if not, will a NWN2 version be created?

Also, what exactly do I need to learn to use this application? I need to learn SQL, I got that from your excelent post above , but do I need to learn anything else? I saw a mention of APS (not to be confused with ASP ) somewhere on this site, is that a requirement as well?

[FunkySwerve]

The hope is that NWNX4 will be created for NWN2, and that the plugins will be retooled for it as well, though there are no guarantees. I'll have to rewrite these system anyway when NWN2 rolls around.

APS is an acronym for Avlis Persistent System, the progenitors of NWNX (Avlis is a PW). It is just a set of nwscripts that come packaged with the system that is used when getting neverwinternights to 'speak' to nwnx. It contains various persistence functions like SetPersistentString, Int, and so on. It serves as an example of how to input MySQL commands using nwscript.

Other than learning MySQL syntax, and how to do a loop through a MySQL returm (easier than it seems at first blush), it just requires a slightly expandewd understanding of nwscript.

Glad I could be of assistance!
Funky

[Sagerious]

You've been a huge help, FunkySwerve, and you've managed to thoroughly convince me that NwNx is worth the time it will take me to learn it, APS, and SQL. In fact, I've already begun to learn them

Here's to hoping this all carrries in to NWN2!

[FunkySwerve]

I forgot to mention that Letoscript uses it's own perl-like syntax as well, so that's sort of another thing you might need to learn, if you want to use nwnx_letoscript. Its very similar to MyQL syntax in how it is inset into nwscript - the commands are all set in strings in nwscript. All the biggies like stat modification have already had nwscript wrapper functions made for them, however, so its not really all that hard to pick up. Also, the most current version of Letoscript that is stable is build 24 - though its currnetly on build 27, you should use 24 (the version packaged with the systems I linked you to).
Funky

[dougnoel]

I have moved a lot of NWNX and Avlis NWNX documentation on setup and installation to a wiki. It's a bit slow, but I put it on a free server. Feel free to use and edit it.

http://editthis.info/nwnx/

Doug

[Primogenitor]

Also, Id like to point out that you can use SQLite instead of MySQL. This will be a lot easier to setup, assuming your using a windows machine.

[Papillon]

Great thread. I'll sticky it for a while, since there are probably a lot of people in the same situation.

Contrary to the first version of NWNX, I plan to have NWNX4 ready soon after NWN2 is released. I hope this will make it easier for scripters to provide support for both database types (internal and sql) from the get-go.
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Papillon

[dougnoel]

[Papillon]

*nudges Dougnoel* Yes yes... a current MySQL installation tutorial would be very nice
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Papillon

[fgetce]

I've setup MySQL with apache server and PHP many times before so I had no trouble getting it up and running with the test demo (it didn't work the first time I tested because I needed to create the DB).

My only problem now is the architecture of the DB. What tables should I created. What should I store, what is the best approach to prevent duplication.

I will say that this system is the best thing for PC gaming that I have seen in years. It literally has re-defined NWN.

I consider NWNx2 a poor mans MMORPG solution. Now I can make a game the way I and many others want.

To the development team, here is a twirl, a finger snap and a big kiss for thank you.

[FunkySwerve]

[dougnoel]

I actually haven't written anything on installing MySQL yet. But it's as easy as downloading the package and sticking it somewhere for Windows.

http://editthis.info/nwnx/MySQL_DB_Setup
http://editthis.info/nwnx/NWNX_Setup_Instructions

This is a start at least.

Doug

[Papillon]

A good start, indeed! Ideally, I would like someone with zero experience with databases to be able to set up NWN2 with NWNX4.
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Papillon