Brainstorming for a persistent world zero-module ...

[Fireboar]

Ah, that would be me not reading the manual. And not opening a .doc file on principle.

The tables appear to be in their raw format, which is pretty bad actually. Kosmous, you should download and include this instead of the ddpw-mysql-database.rar file.

Also (and here's me being niggly) I really don't like the abundant use of things that you have to pay for. The doc files require the user to have Microsoft Word (OpenOffice will do, but it's not exactly efficient either). The RAR files are licenced to the makers of WinRar, which is shareware/nagware.

I would suggest either using zip, or if you want good compression, 7zip (far more efficient than rar, and WinRar also supports decompressing 7z files).

I've touched up the documentation and repackaged the whole thing. Hope you don't mind - I don't plan on taking any credit. It all now uses entirely open formats. Here are the major changes:

- Put ddpw-bioware-database into a folder on its own called "database".
- Did likewise with scripttemplates.
- The MySQL database is now a .sql file that you simply execute in MySQL (or import if you're using phpmyadmin or similar which a lot of people will be). That saves a lot of faffing about - in Linux one would have to find out where the mysql folder is, log on as root, copy the files across and change them to be owned by mysql, then reset the mysql daemon.
- Compiled readme.doc into PDF form with LaTeX. If you want the document source, you're welcome to it - LaTeX's not really that hard to understand. I think PDFs look nicer myself, but the main advantage of doing this is that it's an open format - you don't need to buy Word to look at it.
- The readme no longer recommends logging into the database as root. This is VERY bad practise and could compromise the user's machine.
- Touched up some of the readme documentation for grammar and clarity.
- Added a few footnotes to the readme documentation for the benefit of Linux users and to enhance the flow of the document where appropriate.
- The entire thing is compressed in 7zip format.

The total package size is now 2.0MB, an improvement on the 2.5MB of its predecessor I think. The new files can be found here:

http://www.bfme.uni.cc/globaldomain/ddpw.7z

Feel free to use any or none of them in future distributions, as you see fit. Note that the size of the PDF can also be drastically reduced by removing the hyperlinks (for some odd reason).

Okay, there's my constructive criticism done. Oh, one last thing. The icons on the left vanish when I click the padlock, and don't return even after logging in. Any idea why that might be?

[Maltalossëwen]

I just downloaded this package and if I'm not mistaken, the MySQL database script is missing, at least I can't find the .sql-file you refer to. Can you check this please?

[Kosmous]

Didn't know .doc and .rar was a problem with anyone actually. Good to know. Always thought since openoffice and winrar was free, it wasn't a issue. Thanks for the assistance But I'm gonna have to ask you to redo that for me once I repack the Councilor Tools (fixed some crash bugs).

what do you mean by the icons on the left vanish? Do you mean they remain faded? Since these are core tools, I disabled most of the icons since the appropriate tables don't even exist (outland generator, quest generator etc.) .

I'll have to learn how to make .sql files The only other way I knew how to transfer entire tables was via mysql dump which I thought would confuse most people who didn't know much about mysql.

I sorta knew about the root account security issue. But I'm assuming the people who would actually follow that particular example don't know much about setting up mysql accounts (which I don't want to have to explain). So I kinda decided to help form bad habits rather than have to add half a page more documentation and run the risk of being confusing (yes, I'm bad).

anyway thanks again for all the help. I'll repack the whole thing soon enough in the way you mentioned.

[Fireboar]

Oh! My bad. I forgot to include it, sorry about that! I've updated the package - the link's still the same.

.sql files are essentially a MySQL dump actually. Applications like phpmyadmin will allow you to take a dump and import the tables using the handy dandy "import" feature. Of course, you can also still do... mysql -p dbname < ddpw.sql if you want.

It's really up to you what you do and don't include. I just think that if you're going to be open sourcing the whole thing, might as well do it properly, using open source formats for the packaging and documentation.

Speaking of which, the document source is here. It's just plain text, but a decent editor with syntax highlighting would look best if you have one. It's just markup - if you've used anything like HTML before it should be fairly obvious what's going on.


Okay, about the icons vanishing. The program loads with all icons except one greyed out. I then click on the padlock (not grey) and all the icons, including the padlock, just disappear. They don't return. What exactly is supposed to happen with those icons? It could be just an issue with running it under Wine, or I'm missing a dll or something... but it would be nice to be able to use this thing under Linux one way or another.

Also, I don't particularly like the way the login thing is done, to be honest. It might look neat, but it's annoying to have the ability to move a window disabled. Also, the log in button ought to be made default so the user can just press enter after typing the username and password.

[Kosmous]

Ya i'm pretty sure that problem is specific with Wine. What SHOULD happen is after logging in, several of the icons (the talking smiley, the two gears, the gem, the casino token, and the calculator) are no longer grayed out (the rest are non-core tools).

It might be an issue with active x controls. Not really sure.

The interface, in all honesty, is a total mess. I developed each interface separately and just threw them under that parent frame when I realized that I had over ten applications I had to run to access all my tables. These features started with the dynamic conversation editor but just kept on getting bigger because I really didn't have much of a game plan to begin with. I'll try to spruce things up, but I don't know if I can make it compatible with Wine. I'm assuming that it doesn't really have a Windows/system32 folder so the installer isn't able to properly install MSCOMCTL.OCX to that directory.

**I just tried it and it seems possible to put that file in the DDPW CT install directory and it seems to work. If it's not too much trouble, you can try that to see if it'll be able to run. If that's the case I guess I can have that modified on the next package release as well.

PS Ya I keep on telling myself to do the login streamlining but keep on forgetting for some reason. I'll have that done as well. I'll see what I can do about the disabled windows in the background. I tend to end up "losing" certain windows under larger ones at times as result (I'll probably just have the left side buttons change focus to those windows if that tool is already opened).


Anyway thanks for that help again.

[Fireboar]

Oh, Wine does have a system32 folder. It basically replicates a Windows system directory and provides an API for accessing those files. But the dlls are all custom built - there's no Microsoft code in there for licensing and trust reasons.

Well yeah, Wine tends to have trouble with weird strangeness and I happen to know that comctl isn't complete yet, so I bet there's some missing functionality or not. No worries though really. Keep on as is, Linux users can just manage without for now I guess - native programs work better anyway.

I take it you built the tools in Visual Basic (there's a VB dll in there). If you open the source, it would take a while but I might be able to port it to Linux, if you're willing to take me up on that offer. I'm pretty notorious for spending forever and a day on something though.

I wouldn't bother modifying the package release to include something that might or might not work for a small group of people, if I were you, in all honesty. It would just inflate the package size which wouldn't be good.

[Kosmous]

I'd have no problems "allowing" you to do another version of the Councilor Tools. After all, that's what I always intended but never got around doing.

I sorta choose VB because I honestly didn't think it was going to get far in terms of a project. At first I had no intentions of releasing anything because the objective was creating my own PW not a system for PWs. It was a way for me to just add my own content faster and with less of a mess. It was only years later that I realized that I could release my work as a tool for other PWs.

Hindsight is 20/20 after all

If you're really serious about making a new GUI for my system, I would be willing to spend the time to give you what you need to get it done. I could easily give you the code but I'm not sure it'll be much help unless your familiar with VB yourself. I could, instead give you more detail on the mysql tables and explain how that data translates into NWN output. Really up to you, I'll take your lead on this since you'll be doing the vast bulk of the work.

[Fireboar]

Hey, I'd be happy to give it a shot - I've got some long stretches of free time coming up in a few months. I'm somewhat familiar with VB. But you're probably right - a specification of the mysql and what you're doing with it would probably be more help.

Don't expect much too quickly though. For now I have quite a bit of work in other areas to be getting on with. So if you do take me up on my offer, don't worry about taking your time.

[Kosmous]

Should I just send over the entire VB Project to you? I guess I'll start with that then I'll work on updating some old table definitions and expound on the purposes of each this coming week.

I don't really expect anything from you any time soon (you are the one doing me the favor after all). Not too many people clamoring for my system, so it's no rush at all.

[Maltalossëwen]

Fireboar, if you are going to rework the client tools, why not do it in C# with MonoDevelop. That way they will run on both Windows and Linux?

[metamud]

Or Java, and eliminate the compatibility nightmare with M$ stuff altogether

Or Groove and script that java stuff up

Or Ruby and get in on the rails!

Or go old school and hack it up in php for some nice icing on the cake

[Fireboar]

Naa, I'm thinking C++ using the Qt application framework. I'm used to that and you can do a whole ton of neat stuff with it. It was also used to make Photoshop Elements, Google Earth, KDE and some other well known applications. Mono really isn't my thing - I'm a little worried about Microsoft's "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" ideals and I never really got the hang of the language. I could do it in java but then I'd have to... er... learn java. And PHP needs to run on a web server which isn't fun for your average newbie.

Kosmous, send whatever you have and want to send - you can reach me at the email address firewithextrafire@googlemail.com

[Kosmous]

Just sent the table definitions to your email, Fireboar. I hope it's useful and sorry it took so long. Was a lot more work than I though to put together.

[Fireboar]

No worries - I probably won't be able to really start on this until around the summer period anyway.

EDIT: Incidentally, I can see a lot of potential for GFF/ERF/2da parsing and manipulation here. That might be something beneficial to extend the core with. 2da is easy. ERF (.erf, .mod, .hak files) is tougher, but still fairly straightforward. GFF (.utc, .utp, .bic, .dlg, .ifo, .are, .git files and more) is a lot harder, especially writing data out, but again, it's still doable.

[Kosmous]

Anything that can be done with script can be done via DDPW (obviously). However, its presentation via any third party application that needs further thought and design. For example, reading from a 2da is useless in itself unless you can use that information so obviously the only two uses for reading 2das is in conditionals (Check 2da Value vs. Given Text) or, more likely as a token (I haven't really expanded tokens far enough) which will allow it not to only be used in SpeakString and Conversation Text Body but any event or conditional which allows for a textbox input (ie. Check Local Variable).