First Step Into the Linux World

[henesua]

The question:
Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat). Does it work well with NWNX?
I assume Ubuntu is well tested with NWNX as it is fairly popular amongst less technical users. Does version matter? Am I wrong in assuming other users have used NWNX and Ubuntu together?


My story
This is my first real step into the Linux world. I've never managed my own Linux machine before - nor installed Linux before. Using 'nix is the work place was always managed by someone else, and I never bothered with a home installation before. I've also never used a 'nix GUI before. Work use was strictly command line in z-shell: web dev, and I never got that deep into it beyond text editing and moving files around. So I am likely going to need some help. I'll get my Linux help elsewhere, but before I begin with that I want to understand if there are any Linux flavors to avoid with NWNX.

I'm using an old macintosh ('99 tower) that has been lying around and upgraded with some old parts I picked up for less than $50 at a neighborhood store that just wanted to get rid of them. Non-stock parts: 500 MHz CPU (PPC750) (a very low power chip overclocked to 1Ghz machine), 1GB of ram, a SATA card to use a modern HD etc.... I mention all this so that you understand I've got an unusual rig full of very old parts and thus I have needed to be selective about which Linux I use. This will be my test-bed machine as I learn NWNX and NWServer on linux. I'll be developing my modules on a different machine.

My research has lead me to Ubuntu which has a version that supports PPC, and I've found some articles documenting the install of meerkat on other PPC machines. It also appears to be fairly easy to use. So I should be alright. But... anyway we shall see. Its about time I stepped into the Linux world. Been sick of Apple and Microsoft and looking for an alternative. I'm fairly excited about it actually. If this goes well I've got my main computer that I'll be converting to Ubuntu and hosting our module from.

Now if only Unity ran on 'nix. Alas not.

[Lokey]

We use 10.04 (long term support version, next will hit mid-this year, 12.04) with Elven's compiles http://www.nwnx.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1775

nwserver was compiled on ancient libraries, so getting it to run in the 64 bit version requires finagling (we use 32bit PAE kernel with 4 gigs of ram). Beyond that it's mostly painless, there's tons of helper gui apps on all kinds of OSs for handling a server.

I also use linux as my normal computer, though I haven't tried buntu in a while (hear kubuntu--ubuntu with kde wm/de--is put together better now than it used to be). Of course, most important is that your hardware is supported and that you don't do things that require lots of effort/knowledge to accomplish in lin. Granted almost all linux have a live environment to try out these days, so that's the place to start.
_________________
Neversummer PW NWNx powered mayhem

[Squatting Monk]

I like Ubuntu because it has a good community and lots of documentation. I also use 10.04 LTS, but I use Ubuntu Server, which is command-line only. It's certainly easier on my RAM and it forces me to learn more about the system really works. On the other hand, it also means I run into aggravating problems every now and then. (See the post I made just before you. )

[henesua]

I like the idea of longterm support, and am now looking at 10.04. Its good to know that someone else here is using it as well.

Regarding using Server as opposed to Desktop:
Does NWNX2 run on either? Do I need the Server version for LAMP or is it possible to add everything I would need to the Desktop version? Although I am looking at the Ubuntu documentation, I'm not clear on what the difference is between Desktop and Server.

[Edit]
Nevermind, I spent more time in the documentation and now better understand how this system works. "Server" apparently just means a leaner distro - typically without GUI.

[SSJeol]

Edit2: Oh, I had completely missed this was PPC architechture.

[PlasmaJohn]

Warning: I've only just finished the first cup of coffee for the day so I may have completely misinterpreted things

You're trying to do this on a PowerPC CPU? I think your first challenge is trying to find a PPC version of nwserver. If that exists it's probably a MacOS9 binary.

While you should be able to compile NWNX in that environment it's tuned to patch the x86 binary. I sincerely doubt any PPC version would have the same offsets.

[eeriegeek]

This does sound like a bit of an adventure! I assume you've checked out the ubuntu compatibility list (Supported Hardware) for the PowerPC. The Mac OSX server binary is packaged in the dedicated server zip along with the windows and linux binaries (Dedicated Server 1.69). Apparently the mac server is a gui app like the windows one. If that doesn't work out, it should be dirt cheap/free to get an old intel i386 architecture box somewhere these days which would let you install the much more common i386 version of everything. Let us know how it goes! I should add, that as PlasmaJohn has said, you will probably run into problems with NWNX in the end. It would probably require a whole separate fork of NWNX including figuring out the prelink/process attachment technique needed to capture the internal program function calls.

[EDIT] It seems the Mac OSX binary _is_ packaged with the dedicated server. Changed the text above so bad info doesn't get around. Well... I did say I was no mac expert

[henesua]

A PPC version of NWServer is not a problem in OS X. It runs well from what I can tell. However --- does the Linux version of NWServer require Intel?

That said... the most troubling bit of information is that NWNX requires intel architecture. So I'd have to write a port for NWNX to PPC chips. I'm a bit too busy to begin climbing that learning curve just yet.

I don't have enough room for yet another machine unfortunately, and am unable to repurpose my intel machine. So NWNX will have to wait for me.

[Squatting Monk]

Could you possibly run Linux in a virtual box? IIRC, you could have it emulate any processor architecture you'd like.

[Skywing]

Don't use VirtualBox for NWN-based games, as it has broken timer hardware emulation that will cause difficult to track down breakages. VMware and Hyper-V are known to work.

[elven]

Xen 3 and 4 is known to work perfectly as well.

Yes, the nwserver linux binary requires 32bit intel architecture, and porting nwnx to ppc would probably be a gigantic waste of time and horrendously time-eating to maintain.

[henesua]

Well given that I lack a server machine with an intel cpu, nwnx is not a possibility for me right now then. if anything changes, I'll definitely be back.

On a linux note... i really like ubuntu. currently reading linux kernel in a nutshell and experimenting. this looks like a lot of fun.

[DM_Vecna]

henesua;

I don't know if it is in your plan but you might look at a mac mini server from Apple. Each year a few end of life units get massively discounted when the new models come around. Hit me up if you are interested and I will keep an eye out for you.

DM_Vecna
matt@familycoyne.com

[elven]

Alternatively, get a cheap atom build. They're powerful enough to run nwn1server reasonably well and can be had starting at 160 Euro.

[PlasmaJohn]

A linux NWN server doesn't take much in the way of resources. Ask around your neighborhood to see if anybody upgraded recently. I just replaced four machines of which three will be retired.